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Unidoom => News => Topic started by: deathz0r on March 13, 2006, 11:31:00 pm

Title: Word on the grapevine
Post by: deathz0r on March 13, 2006, 11:31:00 pm
From an IRC channel: (with two of the particpants names censored)

<******> yea... kilgore set up a decoy and they were catching all the people trying to DL it
<****> i wonder how many fish they caught using that fake aimbot
<******> haha. it was a virus too... it messed up your zdaemon files
<AF-Domains> delted doom2.wad and zdaemon
<AF-Domains> deleted*

Is this the right way on how you run a client/server Doom port nowadays? Discuss.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: DD_133 on March 13, 2006, 11:33:41 pm
Wow, that is not cool.

Seriously, they could have thought of better ways instead of using VIRUSES. That's hit an all-time low.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Manc on March 13, 2006, 11:36:52 pm
It's not really a virus, it's a trojan.

Regardless, this is simply over the line.  Until a cheater is actually caught cheating said person is out of zdaemon's juristiction.  While it was obviously bad that people are downloading it thinking it's a cheat, it's just as bad for the development team to offer such a thing and claim it's something else.  Maybe a "Hey don't even bother cheating!" or something like that kind of message could have popped up, but to delete doom2.wad is too much.

How long will zdaemon users sit by and let it this sort of ruling continue?
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: leileilol on March 13, 2006, 11:37:16 pm
zdrama
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Manc on March 13, 2006, 11:39:51 pm
There's "drama" and there's "things you don't do to those who are still innocent".  It's not about some stupid bullshit you see day-to-day.  This is somewhat serious.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Bloodshedder on March 13, 2006, 11:40:17 pm
This is so incredibly lame that "virus" and "trojan" are ill-fitting words used to describe it.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: leileilol on March 13, 2006, 11:44:25 pm
yeah even though unrelated I don't really agree with kilgore's doom2.wad getwad retrieval practices either, it just introduces more noob fodder who want "free game" than genuine doom2 players.

how's this man still around anyhow
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Nautilus on March 13, 2006, 11:50:53 pm
That's very unjust, especially for the staff to fool people into downloading a "trojan" just to desperately and viciously eliminate cheating. Cheating is an exasperating and nerve-wrecking act, however offering such a harmful file under the pretext of a cheat (offering such a file period) for administrative purposes is far worse and is even a contradiction to the presumably standard goal of an administration -- to maintain order and control -- however, when the administration is conspicuously blemished and venal like that of ZDaemon, it observes more anxious, undisclosed measures to "fix" or "rid" of something without bothering to take time and ask for help. Quotes are used, as the context of the two terms is often contorted and uncertain.

Although the act can be argued as one aimed for maintaining order and control, it is still harmful to others and can trigger an uproar back from the harm done. The supposed "trojan" seems to only screw up ZDaemon files, yet it still does commit injury one way or another, and it is obviously the product of an attack driven by detrimental motives.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: SDoom4 on March 14, 2006, 12:03:45 am
not only could they have deleted doom2.wad, but any file they wished. Does anyone see the danger the zdaemon administration can cause to the doom community?
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: DarkRevenge on March 14, 2006, 12:28:17 am
not only could they have deleted doom2.wad, but any file they wished. Does anyone see the danger the zdaemon administration can cause to the doom community?
He is right. The ZDaemon staff could easily ruin every ZDaemoner's computer with the simplicity of creating and update for ZDaemon with a trojan in it. These are not people you should trust.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: CodeImp on March 14, 2006, 12:29:05 am
Maybe I should do the same with the next version of Doom Builder;
have it delete your wad files made with deapsea/wadauthor or something....

just kidding :P
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ant P on March 14, 2006, 12:42:24 am
I had a dozen things I was going to say here, but I'll just say one.

As of now I'm dropping any prejudices I had against Codeimp - he's a lot more... stable than the people running ZDaemon.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: DevastatioN on March 14, 2006, 01:25:01 am
Actually, it wasn't made by Kilgore, you have your facts wrong.

Secondly, the thing was definately NOT harsh enough, if it could have deleted and fucked up the entire PC, operating system, or formatted the entire drive, it definately should have.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Russell on March 14, 2006, 01:33:26 am
Actually, it wasn't made by Kilgore, you have your facts wrong.

Secondly, the thing was definately NOT harsh enough, if it could have deleted and fucked up the entire PC, operating system, or formatted the entire drive, it definately should have.

Dev, stop being a cock, ZD has pretty much reached a new low.

You see, they REALLY do not want to lose their comfort zone.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Nautilus on March 14, 2006, 01:34:06 am
It was actually made by Doom2pro, yes. (the administration is still held accountable either way)

It actually can be pretty harsh, but I guess it can depend on circumstances.

<deathz0r>The "fake aimbot" makes duplicates of itself using filenames like explorer.exe and aim.exe and installs itself to run at startup by adding registry keys. The program also reports your ZDaemon username and password back to the ZDaemon staff, and deletes various ZDaemon files and IWADs, such as zdoom.ini and doom2.wad.

And why do you even think that just because someone cheats or presumably "tries to", deserves his computer to be completely fucked up? It's not like cheating hacks and crashes everyone's computers, thus granting them the incentive to vengefully strike back with a more bitter action that actually can cause mar.

Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: DevastatioN on March 14, 2006, 01:35:59 am
Why do they deserve to have their PC's?

Cheating is an all time low, done by dirty bastards that most likely shouldn't even be touching a computer, it's an all time lower for the person.  Personally, destroying every cheaters PC would be a dream, they don't deserve the equipment they have, they can do something better with their lives.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ant P on March 14, 2006, 01:37:39 am
Curiosity killed the cat.
Or in this case, the userbase.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: DevastatioN on March 14, 2006, 01:39:04 am
Downloading out of curiosity only shows your weak mindedness, also, if you're that stupid to download the virus one, you should be shot, causey our IQ has to be below 90.  It was so obvious it wasn't even funny, I don't believe people fell for it to be honest, the people should lose their PC stuff jst because they're too stupid to deserve it.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ant P on March 14, 2006, 01:43:16 am
Who, other than you, said I downloaded it?

You're just creating that assumption to launch a string of ad-hominem name-calling. You're the weak-minded one.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: DevastatioN on March 14, 2006, 01:49:06 am
If you re-read my post I never said that u specifically downloaded, I guess I should restate that for people who don't understand.  "*IF* you downloaded it, *THEN* it shows you are weakminded"  The definition of an if statement... if you DIDN'T download it, then it does NOT imply that you are weakminded.  It was meant to anyone who downloaded out of curiosity, not neccesarily you, and I do not believe you downloaded it btw.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ant P on March 14, 2006, 01:57:40 am
Then forget that last post.

I'd be interested to find out how many of the ZDaemon forum mods downloaded and ran this program, since I recall at least one or two publically admitting to using Codeimp's aimbot - out of curiosity.

Or maybe they didn't this time, since they were in on the conspiracy too?
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Manc on March 14, 2006, 02:08:37 am
Until they commit the act of cheating they are perfectly within their rights to download whatever they please.  Even if they found out it really was an aimbot they may not have even used it more than a few seconds.  They may not even have ran it at all.  Until they do, they are not violating any agreement they made when they downloaded zdaemon.  The fact that it is reported to delete their iwad means it's maliciously removing purchased software (or presumed to be so).  If it was a fake aimbot that reported their ip even THAT would be (a stretch) within their juristiction.  The fact that it would delete any files, especially commercial iwads it has no direct connection with (reportedly), makes it as bad if not worse than anything codeimp did.  Codeimp's stuff never deleted your files. 

Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: deathz0r on March 14, 2006, 02:15:08 am
<deathz0r>The "fake aimbot" makes duplicates of itself using filenames like explorer.exe and aim.exe and installs itself to run at startup by adding registry keys. The program also reports your ZDaemon username and password back to the ZDaemon staff, and deletes various ZDaemon files and IWADs, such as zdoom.ini and doom2.wad.
I was going to the edit the original post and add this in, but I guess Naut decided it was best to leak it from IRC. He had originally censored my name, which I had removed.

I want to make this known that the "ZDaemon traitor" unveiled something that will very much question the ethical actions of ZDaemon staff.

Guess this is a better reaction to my permanent ban than my drama post I made when I found out I was banned.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: CodeImp on March 14, 2006, 02:18:54 am
Until they commit the act of cheating they are perfectly within their rights to download whatever they please. Even if they found out it really was an aimbot they may not have even used it more than a few seconds. They may not even have ran it at all. Until they do, they are not violating any agreement they made when they downloaded zdaemon. The fact that it is reported to delete their iwad means it's maliciously removing purchased software (or presumed to be so). If it was a fake aimbot that reported their ip even THAT would be (a stretch) within their juristiction. The fact that it would delete any files, especially commercial iwads it has no direct connection with (reportedly), makes it as bad if not worse than anything codeimp did. Codeimp's stuff never deleted your files.
In fact, my stuff was accuractly targeted at ZDaemon for the (now very obvious) reasons. But I think my stuff is somewhat offtopic here. Now that this fake ZDaemon client has been examined more thoroughly, it seems it certainly does qualify as a trojan or virus. Deleting files, spreading through your computer, uploading your login information, what more harmfull things can a program do?

Edit:
Oh and lets see how long it takes before the ZDaemon comes up with some message denying all this :P
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: deathz0r on March 14, 2006, 02:23:57 am
Don't forget that it was made by a ZDaemon staff member, most likely with the authorisation with Raider (at the very least, authorisation with Kilgore). Talk about taking the "security by obscurity" approach up by a few extra notches.

Edit:
Oh and lets see how long it takes before the ZDaemon comes up with some message denying all this :P
It's what I call a ZDaemon Administrative Decision - Ignore it or threaten it away! =P
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: DevastatioN on March 14, 2006, 02:57:33 am
Raider did NOT give authorization of this, and I doubt the other staff knew about it til it was already done.

I was talking with Kilgore at the time I seen this, and I was laughing at it actually, how the cheaters were about to get what they deserved, and he thought that *I* did it, he was very unaware at the time.  If you think ZDaemon staff authorized it, your dead wrong.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: deathz0r on March 14, 2006, 03:04:15 am
Mar 10 08:08:50 <Baky> wtf im banned on Zlauncher :)
Mar 10 08:09:40 <deathz0r> that's your oppurtunity to stop using it!
Mar 10 08:10:01 <Baky> i dont using "it"
Mar 10 08:10:19 <Baky> i only download cheat by kilgore
Mar 10 08:10:33 <deathz0r> cheat by kilgore?
Mar 10 08:10:46 <Baky> yes
Mar 10 08:10:54 <deathz0r> care to go into more detail?
Mar 10 08:11:20 <Baky> 1) install it 2) banned automatically

Something tells me Kilgore was well aware of the program. If he had any guts, he'd post here and prove otherwise.

Or of course, he could make a ZAD.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: CodeImp on March 14, 2006, 03:11:57 am
banned automatically?! they thought their bans list was not long enough already? hahaha!
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Guest on March 14, 2006, 03:15:56 am
Raider did NOT give authorization of this, and I doubt the other staff knew about it til it was already done.

I was talking with Kilgore at the time I seen this, and I was laughing at it actually, how the cheaters were about to get what they deserved, and he thought that *I* did it, he was very unaware at the time.  If you think ZDaemon staff authorized it, your dead wrong.

Dude get off ZDaemon's cock. They have brainwashed you so bad.  You have become a sheep. Blindly believe all of the lies.
Title: heh
Post by: Guest on March 14, 2006, 03:19:47 am
HEH drama
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: leileilol on March 14, 2006, 04:06:42 am
Can't stop the cheaters by improving zdaemon? Attack their computer without knowledge.

That's only a dubya solution (OMG POLITICS)

Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ralphis on March 14, 2006, 06:15:52 am
I think most of this has been out in the open since last year. The fact that the entire team is unethical is not some type of ground breaking news is it?

ZDaemon is slowing being killed by its own dev team. Good riddance.

For once, I'd like to see some of their team come over here and try and shed some light on this without posting under an anonymous nickname.

Don't worry, we aren't like you. We won't deactivate your accounts or ban you because we don't like what you said. I promise.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: AlexMax on March 14, 2006, 07:11:37 am
Two wrongs don't make a right, ZDaemon team.  You're trying to cut down on cheating, which is admirable.  However, by doing so with what is essentially a trojan horse, you're on the EXACT SAME level that Codeimp was, by providing something that claims to do one thing but does something malicious to a users compuer (or in Codeimp's case, someone elses computer.  Whatever.)

In reality, your program deleted ZDaemon.  Fine.  But that's only the stuff people figured out.  What else did you put on people's computers?  What if your pogram accidently did MORE than it was supposed to.  Reguardless of whatever intentions you had, the fact that you deleted files on a users computer under false pretenses is unethical.  You manipulative, untrustworthy slime.

Of course, this is something that has not affected me directly, just as the number of other things that you've done to other people that somehow miss me.  I didn't even know of the "cheat"'s existance until I found this thread.  However, you do realize that the singular reason why I and many other people continue to use ZDaemon is for logistical reasons (more players) instead of idealogical ones.  And beleive me, if there was a decent alternative, I, and probably half your damn userbase, not to mention the dozens of people you've disenfranchised along the way to your nanny state of a community, would switch so fast it would make your head spin.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Kristus on March 14, 2006, 07:42:54 am
Too much drama.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Russell on March 14, 2006, 08:03:26 am
I miss the old days :(

next thing they'll be doing is writing a virus that asks for credit card numbers before playing zdaemon
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ant P on March 14, 2006, 08:28:52 am
Raider did NOT give authorization of this, and I doubt the other staff knew about it til it was already done.

I was talking with Kilgore at the time I seen this, and I was laughing at it actually, how the cheaters were about to get what they deserved, and he thought that *I* did it, he was very unaware at the time.  If you think ZDaemon staff authorized it, your dead wrong.

So if the staff had nothing to do with it, explain how it's possible for people to get autobanned on the master server just by running it.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Russell on March 14, 2006, 08:31:02 am
You guys should send an email to him, just to see what his response is.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Doom2pro on March 14, 2006, 08:32:12 am
Trojan Horse? Uhh, do you guys even know what a Trojan Does? I think a more fitting word for this is "Punk Buster" and if you got a problem with Punk Busters then your probably a lame cheater or lack a simple understanding of Common Sense.

Dev is right, I could have made it worse, but I didnt, I chose to delete files that could easily be replaced, and as for it copying itself, hell half the spywhere out there does the exact same thing, that hardly qualifies it as a "Trojan". It's sole purpose was to make it risky to download any cheats, and it was placed in the fourms of a popular cheating website, in a thread about a zdeaemon cheat - nowhere else.

The only information I send back is Username and Password to verify it's authenticity.

Right now the only Drama I see is a bunch of Outcasts overeacting and ridiculous conspiracy theories. Grow up guys, your an embarrassment to yourselfs and anyone associated with you.

And to think we would do anything like this to our normal users is simply retarded thinking. Coming from a bunch of morons linked to Codeimp who attacked our service on many occasions is ironic to say the least.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Doom2pro on March 14, 2006, 08:39:31 am
So if the staff had nothing to do with it, explain how it's possible for people to get autobanned on the master server just by running it.

They dont get "Auto Banned"... and I'm not about to divulge how we go about banning people because it's simply none of your business, but no, you dont get automatically banned by running it, it simply adds your account information to a (growing) list of users. We then use that information in the future to determine whether or not a ban is needed.

You guys think you know so much about how we run things but you dont. Alot more thought goes into a ban than you might think.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Doom2pro on March 14, 2006, 08:49:02 am
Ohh Grow up Alex, your one to talk about Trust, if memory serves me Doom Builder was used to perform a Denial of Service attack on ZDaemon and if I'm correct you still use that, and to think that we would put anything like that into our releases is stupid.

Your trying to link a Punk Buster to Trojan and make it look like we are capable of adding Viruses to Offical Releases, based on a bunch of rumors by morons who think Anti Cheating Software is the same thing as a Trojan.

One word, Retarded.

Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Doom2pro on March 14, 2006, 08:50:49 am
I think most of this has been out in the open since last year. The fact that the entire team is unethical is not some type of ground breaking news is it?

ZDaemon is slowing being killed by its own dev team. Good riddance.

For once, I'd like to see some of their team come over here and try and shed some light on this without posting under an anonymous nickname.

Don't worry, we aren't like you. We won't deactivate your accounts or ban you because we don't like what you said. I promise.

Actually, ZDaemon has grown recently, we have more users than ever before, more servers than ever before, and ironicly this started after we rid the community of people like YOU!
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Doom2pro on March 14, 2006, 08:53:20 am
Can't stop the cheaters by improving zdaemon? Attack their computer without knowledge.

That's only a dubya solution (OMG POLITICS)

Since when does deleting ZDaemon and Doom related files classify as an "Attack" ?

And do you honestly think we would warn them beforehand!!?!?! Ahahahaha

"Warning: You are about to be reported as a potential cheater! if you proceed ZDaemon and all Doom Related files will be deleted!"
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Doom2pro on March 14, 2006, 08:57:03 am
Don't forget that it was made by a ZDaemon staff member, most likely with the authorisation with Raider (at the very least, authorisation with Kilgore). Talk about taking the "security by obscurity" approach up by a few extra notches.
It's what I call a ZDaemon Administrative Decision - Ignore it or threaten it away! =P

Wrong, I did this on my own, and besides it's not like we posted the URL on the main website!

The only way you could possibly download this cheat is if you knew what it claimed to be (a cheat) and had every intention of doing so.

In my book that at least warrents future scrutiny and at most an annoying side effect (doom related file removal).

And Raider said afterwards that he would have not removed any files, simple reporting would have been better.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: AlexMax on March 14, 2006, 09:04:53 am
In response to Doom2pro, your memory serves you incorrectly.  The thing that attacked ZDaemon was Skulltag Online, a descendant of Doom Connector.  This does not prevent me from being morally opposed to Codeimp, but I continue to use Doom Builder because there are no better alternatives.

And also, your assertment that getting rid of a good number of people the administration took a dim view of increased the player base is a logical falicy, though one that you're doubtless eager to embrace.  Correlation does not equal causality.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Doom2pro on March 14, 2006, 09:08:15 am
I'm talking about dipshits like Ralphis, yes he is a dipshit.

And if you notice I used the word Ironicly...

btw these forums suck this is the second time my posts have been blanked by adding a quote.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: AlexMax on March 14, 2006, 09:16:21 am
In response to your lack of willingness to warn about file deletion, I would like to say that yes, if a prorgram...

1. Proposes to be something it's not.
2. Takes part in some malicious unintended activity (Deletes files off of someone's computer without telling them).

Then it does indeed fall under 'trojan horse'.  Your program is not Punkbuster, with Punkbuster, I know exactly what it is, and I can also be assured that it does not partake in malicious activity on my computer.

And Ralphis most certainly is not a dipshit in my opinion.  He certainly isn't liked by certain people, but are you now suggesting that people whom you do and other members of the community do not personally like should be kicked out of ZDaemon?  Are you guys really that petty and unable to tolerate people with whom you dislike?
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: AlexMax on March 14, 2006, 09:17:42 am
By the way, I am more than happy to partake in a private conversation with you, if you want to continue this conversation without the encumberances of the admitedly buggy new forum software, I am sitting on both quakenet and OFTC IRC servers under the nickname AlexMax, if you want to partake in private conversation.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Doom2pro on March 14, 2006, 09:19:44 am
I find it very interesting that most of the users that post here are outcasts that were banned for one reason or another...

Some of who are linked to attacks on ZDaemon, and yet most of you ramble on about how ZDaemon has gone down the tube, and how it's all falling to peices.

These sound like the words of depresed users who were banned and cannot experience ZDaemon anymore... For a second I almost feel sorry for you guys... well maybe 1/10th of a second =)

The community has grown, and just about everything I read in here could not be farther from the truth. Some of you guys I used to like, Alexmax and his awesome maps, Russell (even though he never played) and Deathz0r... Is it merely a coincidence that these guys are all in the same Clan? I think breathing the same air has effected you guys...
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Doom2pro on March 14, 2006, 09:22:02 am
"1. Proposes to be something it's not.
2. Takes part in some malicious unintended activity (Deletes files off of someone's computer without telling them)."

1: How else is a Punk Buster supposed to work?
2: " malicious " is hardly the word, it's not like it's deleting anything important, besides most of the files it deletes are ZDaemon files!

If you dont want this to happen to you, DONT DOWNLOAD CHEATS!
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Doom2pro on March 14, 2006, 09:24:41 am
"And Ralphis most certainly is not a dipshit in my opinion.  He certainly isn't liked by certain people, but are you now suggesting that people whom you do and other members of the community do not personally like should be kicked out of ZDaemon?  Are you guys really that petty and unable to tolerate people with whom you dislike?"

I dont have a problem with Ralphis, I have a problem with Ralphis abusing his Ops to remove people HE doesnt like!
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Doom2pro on March 14, 2006, 09:28:03 am
By the way, if I wasnt clear before, Kilgore and Raider had NO idea I was doing this untill *after* I released it.

Anyone in the community could have done this, just because I did it in my own spare time doesnt mean it was something Offical.

I just got Fed up with these stupid cheaters and decided to help along with dispatching them. Actually, I only did this in the cheat website's forums in the thread where the cheat was advertised, and I succeeded in creating alot of confusion and getting some usefull "intel" into who might be downloading it.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Doom2pro on March 14, 2006, 09:31:00 am
If you think this is our only response to the cheating problem your dead wrong, you have NO idea whats on the way.

This is going to be my last post here, I feel I have cleared up the situation enough.

and I think I did my part in debugging the "new fourms software", your welcome :)
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: AlexMax on March 14, 2006, 09:32:26 am
I have not been banned.  I gave up my status as Wad Editing mod out of my own free will.  And the only one in this entire thread who has been 'linked' to attacks on ZDaemon is CodeImp.  Nobody else has attacked ZDaemon.  Nobody.

And nobody is 'depressed' over not being able to use ZDaemon anymore.  IP bans easily sidestepped, and if we really wanted to be playing ZDaemon for reasons other than map testing, we would.  If you banned me, for example, I'd simply wait a week or two, reset my IP to something different and alias.

However, I find it funny how you think that we're all against ZDaemon becuase we're 'breathing the same air' because I feel the same way about several ZDaemon developers with whom I used to have deep respect for (Kilgore and Doom2pro especially) who have gone absolutely off the deep end batshit insane.  Maybe it is coninsidence that the last reminants of sanity in ZDaemon all joined the same clan.  But maybe our idealologies were aligned from the begining.  I know that at least I was one of the guys when I joined ZDaemon who whished he was in UD.  Maybe we were bracing ourselves against the imminant rampant stupidity we saw in the community.  Who knows.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: deathz0r on March 14, 2006, 09:35:16 am
First, I appreciate your willingness to post on these forums d2p. For that, I give you props.
And to think we would do anything like this to our normal users is simply retarded thinking. Coming from a bunch of morons linked to Codeimp who attacked our service on many occasions is ironic to say the least.
No, it's not retarded thinking. It's prefectly typical thinking on this "war" against cheating. You can't fight it any other way than to take extreme actions such as deleting files from the end user's computer.

I won't repeat what Alex said in regards to your claim of the program being similar to PunkBuster.

I don't have a problem against Raider other than being an incompetant leader, my problem is with ZDaemon staff who needed to make a prejudice opinion against me because of my association with CodeImp (and refusal to become part of the brainwashed majority and go on a hatecrime against him) while I was still a staff member. A week before I was banned, I was discussing with Raider about problems with certain staff members and we agreed that we would try to reconcile with them, as Raider preferred to have me working with the other staff members (which I was willing to do).

I hold Raider in some positive regard. At least he did not ban me when he found out I was in #aza, because he was willing to listen to why I was in there, unlike Kilgore who decided to go with a ZDaemon Administrative Decision (I like this phrase, it's growing on me).

I'm not going to defend CodeImp because every single ZDaemon staff member (except Bones) that I know of is too arrogant to look at it from a side other than their own.

Right now the only Drama I see is a bunch of Outcasts overeacting and ridiculous conspiracy theories. Grow up guys, your an embarrassment to yourselfs and anyone associated with you.
ZDaemon team on the authoritive position! What will the threatened Unidoom do to get out of this situation of being called outcasts from ZDaemon?

Nothing. At least we're not outcasts from the rest of the Doom community.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: deathz0r on March 14, 2006, 09:38:37 am
Some of who are linked to attacks on ZDaemon,
I find it interesting that there is no evidence that links me to attacks other than being AFK in a particular IRC channel with a particular person.

That's the ZDaemon method of resolving matters: Fill in the gaps they can't be bothered researching with what they believe is correct!
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: AlexMax on March 14, 2006, 09:39:53 am
Quote from: deathz0r
Nothing. At least we're not outcasts from the rest of the Doom community.

Exactly.  Ever wonder why you don't get immigrants from any other facet of Doom, and have to rely on word of mouth?  Because everyone else can see what total fuckwads you guys are being.  Becoming essentially Doom AOL is not something to be proud of in a community.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Russell on March 14, 2006, 09:45:13 am
If you think this is our only response to the cheating problem your dead wrong, you have NO idea whats on the way.

This is going to be my last post here, I feel I have cleared up the situation enough.

and I think I did my part in debugging the "new fourms software", your welcome :)

overall, it sounds like you are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
IF you had the chance to work on another project, a doom related project (possibly even multiplayer c/s, like zdaemon), would you take it?

without all the BS that surrounds ZD?
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: CodeImp on March 14, 2006, 10:11:37 am
How can he be trying to justify his unethical actions? I mean, this is not like "just trying one time in private", this is deliberately given out in public AND the program was deliberately written to be malicious AND to uploading personal information (for as far as that does not fall in the 'malicious' category already). Regardless of the files it deletes, it IS malicious, because it does not have the right to police the files on my computer until the user has given explicit permission for that.

And when talking about rights; The only right ZDaemon has, is to deny ones access to their services since the service is free and hence a privilege to use. But that is where it ends. Everyone has the right to download and run whatever he wants whenever he wants on his machine and ZDaemon cannot take away that right or otherwise change it in any way. Hence why there is no possible excuse or justification for the malicious client.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: DD_133 on March 14, 2006, 01:55:33 pm
I haven't yet found anything that would say if this is illiegal or not, this page may shed some like on the matter. ( http://www.faqs.org/faqs/computer-virus/alt-faq/part3/ ) Also, if Kilgore himself wrote it and distributed it to the server for download, it would have to refer to his own country's law, which i'm unsure about their malicious computer viruses rule. I'm interested to see if this can lead to a lawsuit, but my best guess is that since he's in Greece, it's not likely.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ant P on March 14, 2006, 02:04:58 pm
I just downloaded the Doom Builder source for myself and found no network code whatsoever in it. This basic piece of fact-checking took less than 5 minutes which begs the question, why is d2p not able to do it himself?
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: CodeImp on March 14, 2006, 03:53:55 pm
Its a rant written in panic. There is nothing malicous in Doom Builder and there never was. I have no clue how he got to Doom Builder, because I think he means STO but that does not have a relation with Doom Builder. He just needs me and my attacks to get rid of the contrast now created by his unethical and malicious actions, but I and my attacks are completely unrelated to this subject.

Have no worries about Doom Builder. It has nothing to do with ZDaemon or anything else in the multiplayer scene and I will never let it get involved. What I did in the past were unethical (but personal) actions in response to unethical actions (like the obvious current one) and were targeted at ZDaemon only. Alexmax is right that two wrongs do not make a right, but I'm just letting you know my position and that my past actions do not involve nor have any consequences for Doom Builder or any of my other work. Let that be very clear.

Anyway, like I said, that has no relations with these actions and my past actions are only mentioned to mask the truth that Doom2pros recent actions are malicious.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: fodders on March 14, 2006, 04:23:39 pm
This must be illegal. Peopel that have been affected should report this virus maker to the fbi or their own law agency.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Doom2pro on March 14, 2006, 04:35:44 pm
This must be illegal. Peopel that have been affected should report this virus maker to the fbi or their own law agency.

I have to reply to this, Fodders, I used to like you but now I'm not sure, your all acting retarded, Uninstalling OUR software isnt illegal and IT IS NOT A VIRUS, IT DOES NOT SPREAD IT DOES NOT DELETE PERSONAL INFORMATION AND IT DOES NOT ALLOW ME TO CONTROL YOUR MACHINE. If you think otherwise you are mistaken.

The ONLY people effected by this ARE CHEATERS! If you are taking sides with the cheaters you are only making a fool out yourself!
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Doom2pro on March 14, 2006, 04:37:43 pm
Also, to think that law inforcement would get involved in a case where a cheater had a bad experience with anti cheat software is stupid, plain and simple. At the most you will get laughed at! Think about it.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ant P on March 14, 2006, 04:41:19 pm
Remind me, when did ZDaemon acquire copyright ownership of the contents of doom2.wad again?
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Doom2pro on March 14, 2006, 04:44:48 pm
Remind me, when did ZDaemon acquire copyright ownership of the contents of doom2.wad again?

Remind me, when was the data file of a ten year old computer game considered software?
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: CodeImp on March 14, 2006, 04:52:36 pm
Remind me, when was the data file of a ten year old computer game considered software?
Does a painting or a book have to be software in order to be protected by copyright laws?

And since when do you have the right to police the files I have on my computer? If I want to download 20 copies of ZDaemon and have them sit on my harddisk I have every right to do so, you do not have the right to delete any of my files, regardless what their names are.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Doom2pro on March 14, 2006, 04:57:23 pm
I'm done with you guys I dont have to explain myself to you people, you are never satisfied with our work, your all ungreatfull and now aparently your siding with cheaters! ha!

Your all simple mided, where I come from, the last thing people would call software to bust cheaters is "a virus!". Your just as bad as them, most of you guys are banned anyway so no wonder you jump at the chance to criticize us. Although I'm suprised some of you actually beleave the bullshit around here (namly fodders).

If you guys ran the community I wouldnt be suprised if you slapped cheaters on the wrist and yelled "bad cheater!" and put it behind you then blame someone else for the rampant cheating in your community!

All I can say is thank GOD people like you dont run this place!
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Doom2pro on March 14, 2006, 05:01:34 pm
Does a painting or a book have to be software in order to be protected by copyright laws?

And since when do you have the right to police the files I have on my computer? If I want to download 20 copies of ZDaemon and have them sit on my harddisk I have every right to do so, you do not have the right to delete any of my files, regardless what their names are.


Since when do you have the right to take over someones cumputer and use it in a Denial of Service attack on someone you dislike? Your not one to talk about rights, you betrayed the trust of alot of people.

Since when do you have the right to flood games with clones and royaly piss of alot people? Dont talk to me about rights when you have broken more "ethics" than all the assholes in this forum combined. What I did was against cheaters, what you did was against innocent players.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: CodeImp on March 14, 2006, 05:11:11 pm
There you go again, dismiss the facts by talking about what I have done in the past. It is not as if I do not know the difference between right and wrong and I never said I was so right in my actions. Didn't I just make it clear in the other post above that those were personal conflicts with ZDaemon completely seperate from this, Doom Builder, and everything else? Don't use it to mask the facts we just pointed out here.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ant P on March 14, 2006, 05:33:42 pm
Remind me, when was the data file of a ten year old computer game considered software?

Since you tried to claim tricking people into running a malicious trojan wasn't illegal:
Quote from: Doom2pro
Uninstalling OUR software isnt illegal
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: p0x on March 14, 2006, 06:38:23 pm
If you think this is our only response to the cheating problem your dead wrong, you have NO idea whats on the way.

wow arn't you cool now?
noes! doom2pro is teh master hax0r! run away!
won't you post just one more time, and tell me why i was banned? well my account was locked rather...oh and tell Bonzo i said hi ;)
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ant P on March 14, 2006, 07:04:14 pm
He seems to have fled back to the ZDaemon forums.

Here's a little gem of irony from there:
Quote from: Doom2Pro
and yet your angry because some cheaters might have been busted... Makes me wonder if you are a cheater.

You know, when cheaters start getting busted and other users start getting nervous or visibly angry what does that make you look like?
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Manc on March 14, 2006, 08:27:36 pm
I like how anyone who thinks this is bad is labelled a cheater.

Where's the proof I've cheated? or been involved in anyhting?  How about 99% of everyone else in this thread?  Exactly.

Someone isn't a cheater until they've cheated.  Until then they are no one of concern.  Software from 20 years ago is still software.  What does age have to do with it?

This is a trojan.  It is saying it is something but it is in fact something else entirely.  Gee whiz sounds like a trojan to me!

Doom2pro you've gone nuts, absolutely mind blowingly nuts.  If you actually believe the shit you're spouting then you've got serious issues.  The facts are clear.  What you've done is worse than anything codeimp has yet done, but it's ok because you're doing it on behalf of the staff (whether you claim to or not, please provide definitive proof against this).

Please, go back to the zdaemon world, where people like you are "respected" for doing malicious things to people who have yet to do anything wrong. 

EDIT: Also, the forum software works fine.  If you are having problems it's because you're too dumb to know how to use it or your browser is ancient garbage.  Plus it's not like phpbb, it's a bit more sophisticated.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Nautilus on March 14, 2006, 08:45:32 pm
Yeah, WE'RE ALL CHEATERS AND OUTCASTS OF ZDAEMON :((((

Even if Raider and the other staff members were unaware of the trojan prior to its release, it's not as if they didn't approve of it one way or another.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Guest on March 14, 2006, 09:07:05 pm
Meh, if you don't pay attention to the drama, and play legit, ZDaemon is one hell of a source port.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: CodeImp on March 14, 2006, 09:11:48 pm
Even if Raider and the other staff members were unaware of the trojan prior to its release, it's not as if they didn't approve of it one way or another.
Im quite sure they are aware of it now, but it looks like they allow this to happen as no actions have been taken as of yet and the damage has already been done.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ant P on March 14, 2006, 09:25:13 pm
It's kind of funny how paranoid and xenophobic all the ZDaemon people have become in the past year or so.

In their obsession with cheating they've managed to ban and alienate all the good people for mostly bullshit or no reasons. Then they lie to themselves that all these decent people were actually cheating scum involved in some giant conspiracy.

But hey, having a userbase full of retards, hypocrites and bigots is fine so long as you get your precious exp points!

stfu.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Lyfe on March 14, 2006, 11:11:11 pm
(Apparently I have issues using this forum software as well.. ahh well)
Take of this what you will, as I know I'm not exactly on good terms with many of you.
The not-a-cheat was written by Doom2Pro, released without knowledge by the ZDaemon administrative staff.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Lyfe on March 14, 2006, 11:12:34 pm
Myself, Raider and Kilgore did not authorize it and did not have anything to do with its release.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Lyfe on March 14, 2006, 11:13:41 pm
Ok, I give up, there's something goofy I think with guest posting.  Preview shows up properly, post doesn't.
My comment on this is easily found on the ZDaemon forums.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: deathz0r on March 14, 2006, 11:57:31 pm
Lyfe, I believe you and I like to think I'm still on good terms with you. You're the type of person who doesn't want to get involved with shit like this and for that, I tip my hat to you.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ant P on March 15, 2006, 12:15:07 am
I've never had anything against you personally.

Now I'm getting out of this shit. It wasn't my place to interfere and I'm getting in too far already.
I haven't been able to run ZDaemon for a year anyway.

meh
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: deathz0r on March 15, 2006, 12:41:28 am
It seems like Doom2pro has apologized on the ZDaemon forums and released the source code and instructions on how to remove the malware. However, I'm not satisfied with the apology.

I want to see Doom2pro revoke his status as a ZDaemon staff member and to remove ZSLLite from the ZDaemon package. I got my staff status revoked for a seriously less severe action.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: DarkRevenge on March 15, 2006, 01:21:13 am
It seems like Doom2pro has apologized on the ZDaemon forums and released the source code and instructions on how to remove the malware. However, I'm not satisfied with the apology.

I want to see Doom2pro revoke his status as a ZDaemon staff member and to remove ZSLLite from the ZDaemon package. I got my staff status revoked for a seriously less severe action.
Definately. His actions were severe enough for a possible ban from ZDaemon, so a Staff ban sounds nessisary.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Russell on March 15, 2006, 02:09:38 am
If any of the staff is reading this, this what doom2pro did in a nutshell

1) Created a virus/trojan/(whatever he calls it) to attack users (who could've been fooled to into downloading it)/cheaters (still a bad thing really)
2) Did it without ANY knowledge to the zdaemon staff/admins
3) Even though the zd staff doesnt care about us, he still managed to sling shit at us, what if he did that to the users of the zd community, huh?

Feel free to add to the list, as I guarantee there is more shit on the pile than what is there.

Anyway, if I were still on the zdaemon team and did this, naturally I'd get raped by the big boss man and have a ZAD thrown on me, probably thrown out
of the community aswell (which I am).
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Russell on March 15, 2006, 02:12:45 am
Hey Lyfe, what is up?

I haven't seen you in #nightmare2 lately, I thought you got a life or something ;)
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: excelblue on March 15, 2006, 04:55:31 am
This is sort of an honest mistake made by Doom2pro during a heated period of time in which he tried his best to stall a cheat. He just went ahead and carried out his plan with good intentions to ZDaemon, though it was not ethical. While much of the team have talked about it and nobody felt completely comfortable about it, it just slipped by.

I'd recommend you all to get the facts from the thread on the ZDaemon forums related this this stuff.

I personally feel that this is an understandable mistake that has gone a little too far, but not to the extent of CodeImp for the fact that this thing was only released as a cheat on a cheating forum for voluntary download only, and it was not meant to damage or attack anybody (well, the cheater in question, but the files removed were simply ZDaemon stuff and doom2.wad).

Really wonder what the ZDaemon community would say if ZSLLite was removed. I mean, everyone still uses DoomBuilder, right?
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Dr. Zin on March 15, 2006, 05:12:43 am
I wonder if id software would appreciate hearing that people who made software using their sourcecode are also creating trojans that delete material from id's games.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: someone on March 15, 2006, 06:59:12 am
I wonder if id software would appreciate hearing that people who made software using their sourcecode are also creating trojans that delete material from id's games.

Not to mention their reasons behind changing from the "Doom educational license" to the GPL. I used to like Zdaemon more because Skulltag's author opted to keep the source closed for entirely selfish reasons, but now it starts to seem like Skulltag is actually the less retarded client/server Doom solution. Why not at least do it like Cube (an open source fps): keep the netcode or some other crucial part closed and release everything else? I'd like to see the entire source back open, though. You want a cheat-free game, you either play only with your friends or go play on a LAN. This is just a futile attempt to lull the clueless into a false sense of security.

Oh and I think it is perfectly ok to be curious and try cheats either alone or with a friend who knows you're cheating on a private server. I've never cheated in any online game, yet I have the ZD 1.08.01 aimbot/wallhack on my HD. I am not stupid enough to run executables from untrustworthy sources without looking at them first (you'd notice Doom2pro's trojan is not what it's supposed to be from like 100km away), but...
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: hehname on March 15, 2006, 02:59:45 pm
(http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/4485/warning3zp.png)
(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8404/pwnt6da.png)
Could have done the exact same effect. Now I'm a ZDaemon fanboy, but even I think that this is too far.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: aca on March 15, 2006, 05:31:48 pm
haha, this is hilarious and really gay at the same time. much like the sony rootkit released a while back (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_rootkit)
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ant P on March 15, 2006, 05:58:03 pm
And there's this saying.

"Those who give up freedom for temporary security deserve neither"
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Manc on March 15, 2006, 06:10:15 pm
This is sort of an honest mistake made by Doom2pro during a heated period of time in which he tried his best to stall a cheat. He just went ahead and carried out his plan with good intentions to ZDaemon, though it was not ethical. While much of the team have talked about it and nobody felt completely comfortable about it, it just slipped by.
Good intentions or not, it was a stupid thing to do and inexcusable.  At least you acknowledge it's ethics.

I'd recommend you all to get the facts from the thread on the ZDaemon forums related this this stuff.
The only "fact" we didn't have here was who originally created it, and we got that within a short period of time (look at the first posts, you'll see we got the right author).  Everything else is pretty much spot on.  There's so much fanboyism over in that thread it's hard to stomach almost.

I personally feel that this is an understandable mistake that has gone a little too far, but not to the extent of CodeImp for the fact that this thing was only released as a cheat on a cheating forum for voluntary download only, and it was not meant to damage or attack anybody (well, the cheater in question, but the files removed were simply ZDaemon stuff and doom2.wad).

Really wonder what the ZDaemon community would say if ZSLLite was removed. I mean, everyone still uses DoomBuilder, right?
"simply" zdaemon and doom2.wad?  How many times do I have to say this?  You don't delete commercial software even if your purposes are noble!  You cross a dangerous line of being a protector to an attacker when you start poking your nose in other people's business.

And as it has been mentioned both on the zd forums and here, codeimp's business was focused and doom builder had nothing to do with anything.  Many people DID stop using doom builder when codeimp did that stuff anyway, so no "everyone" doesn't still use doombuilder.   However, this ZSLlite could in future version contain "anti cheat detection" that could remove one's files for trying to cheat.  It's now entirely plausible such a thing could take place if he could go through with an attack like this.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: nitus on March 16, 2006, 12:30:17 am
I think comparing ZSLlite with any of CodeImp's efforts is a bit murky. Doom2pro, out of what was no doubt a white-hot rage, took it on himself to write this trojan and went over the ZDaemon team's heads in releasing it. ZSLlite was not, and will not be involved in any kind of attack. Skulltag Online, on the other hand, was. That makes a very poor basis for comparison.

If people stopped using Doom Builder because of it - and I don't think that many did - CodeImp has only himself to blame for that. I myself make a point of backing up zdaemon whenever I update DB - because you just never know.
 
The policy of the ZDaemon team, besides banning those who've been caught using cheats and trying to change the code in ways that make it more difficult, has been to ignore the situation in the hope that it would die down. That Doom2pro's trojan had had the opposite effect, and has exacerbated the situation, was undoubtedly a cause of some chagrin for them.
 
I like Doom2pro, and I think that ZSLlite is a very handy utility that should remain in ZDaemon no matter what the outcome might be. While I tend to agree that some kind of disciplinary action might be taken against him, I also tend to think that kicking him out and removing ZSLlite would be going much too far.
 
The key difference here is that what Doom2pro did - though in very poor judgement - was pro-ZDaemon, and not anti-anything. Other people who were kicked out were kicked out for spreading snide dischord against the team that they were supposedly members of, and deserved to be banned. If it was soccer, you kept smirkingly kicking the ball into your own net to score for the other team, you'd get kicked off that team too. And the team you were scoring for wouldn't offer you much afterwards - because you proved that you weren't to be trusted, and nobody likes a seditious dinkweed.
 
I would agree that if Doom2pro did something like this again, then perhaps he should be kicked out. But once, and in this situation, is not serious grounds for dissmissal.
 
You may think that the ZDaemon community is "dying", but it continues to grow. Most are mortified by what Doom2pro did - which was essentially to take the moral low ground - but few are seriously angry about it, and one or two seem to support it even now.
 
As far as I'm concerned, the only real beef that some of you have with ZDaemon is that when it was small you were somebody, but when it grew you got out of touch and simply weren't that big a deal anymore. When you have a few dozen players playing every day, and you're this lone character who doesn't play often, doesn't socialize with the players who do, and yet still thinks to ride a high-horse over them, you seriously can't expect too many people to weep over your enforced absence.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: nitus on March 16, 2006, 01:39:37 am
No, I don't hate you, and yes, I know this is your sandbox. Don't mind my instigating, thanks.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Russell on March 16, 2006, 01:42:25 am
depends if he is getting paid or not to work on zdaemon ;)
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ant P on March 16, 2006, 02:04:54 am
For the record, I was never banned. I walked out before they started looking for new scapegoats.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: aca on March 16, 2006, 03:01:16 am
I like Doom2pro, and I think that ZSLlite is a very handy utility that should remain in ZDaemon no matter what the outcome might be. While I tend to agree that some kind of disciplinary action might be taken against him, I also tend to think that kicking him out and removing ZSLlite would be going much too far.

Right but his actions didn't go to far?
As far as I'm concerned, the only real beef that some of you have with ZDaemon is that when it was small you were somebody, but when it grew you got out of touch and simply weren't that big a deal anymore. When you have a few dozen players playing every day, and you're this lone character who doesn't play often, doesn't socialize with the players who do, and yet still thinks to ride a high-horse over them, you seriously can't expect too many people to weep over your enforced absence.
Haha, you couldn't be more wrong. The real beef that I have, and I know a few others have with the ZDaemon is that the so called "leaders" basically have taken things way too far.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ralphis on March 16, 2006, 04:13:07 am
I find it very interesting that most of the users that post here are outcasts that were banned for one reason or another...

Some of who are linked to attacks on ZDaemon, and yet most of you ramble on about how ZDaemon has gone down the tube, and how it's all falling to peices.

Sorry. I wasn't banned. I haven't been banned. I willingly left your stupid community and program because of the attitudes you display towards ANYBODY that disagrees with anything Darth Raider commands. You're just a bunch of drones and you are nothing but a negative blemish on the ass of the doom community.

While the rest of the community shares its material with eachother and promotes growth, the multiplayer community of doom backpeddled into a feudal era of closed-source bullshit. You are not here to help the community or promote any moving forward. You are here to get your power trips.

Have your closed sourceness and have your drones. You'll eat your words. O
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ralphis on March 16, 2006, 04:14:58 am
I dont have a problem with Ralphis, I have a problem with Ralphis abusing his Ops to remove people HE doesnt like!

Yea, that was probably a stupid error by zdaemon administrators opping a young kid. Get into the now.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ralphis on March 16, 2006, 04:19:52 am
I have to reply to this, Fodders, I used to like you but now I'm not sure, your all acting retarded, Uninstalling OUR software isnt illegal and IT IS NOT A VIRUS, IT DOES NOT SPREAD IT DOES NOT DELETE PERSONAL INFORMATION AND IT DOES NOT ALLOW ME TO CONTROL YOUR MACHINE. If you think otherwise you are mistaken.

The ONLY people effected by this ARE CHEATERS! If you are taking sides with the cheaters you are only making a fool out yourself!

Your software deletes a commercial product, the doom iwad. Your program has no right to be erasing other company's or organizations' software and I'm sure it's most likely illegal in some shape or form.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ralphis on March 16, 2006, 04:25:05 am
Remind me, when was the data file of a ten year old computer game considered software?

Ah, allow me to remind you!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002ESMG8/026-1932241-7221255

The game was re-released in July 2004. That is LESS THAN TWO YEARS AGO.

It is still commercially viable. Of course, ZDaemon never really minded this anyway. Afterall, doesn't getwad grab the iwads for free? No wonder you have such a large userbase!

Question your own ethics. You crack down on cheating but encourage software pirating.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ralphis on March 16, 2006, 04:35:56 am
The key difference here is that what Doom2pro did - though in very poor judgement - was pro-ZDaemon, and not anti-anything.

It was anti ID Software and anti-privacy. This is equivelant to the sony rootkit and it is very clear as to why Doom2Pro will NOT be disciplined in any matter.

Doom2Pro is a servant of Raider and as a result, he will be spared by the almighty. However, those in the past that contributed to the community and predated any such team members were thrown off for trivial matters. Of course, they wern't a Raider yesman.

On another note, I'm not talking about myself in the previous paragraph. If I really felt so inclined I could make Raider a miserable individual. He's seen it, I've seen it, and you've seen it. However, unlike your team over the past year I have taken the high road and not poked my nose in such business.

Good Day!
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Russell on March 16, 2006, 09:31:49 am
Quote
Everything that ralphis said.

Good job, you managed to fill his ass with more concrete than I could ever do in a life time. (thats a good thing btw)

Ralphis is right though, ZD and possibly ST (nothing against Carn, since I like him) are real thorns in the side of the doom community
we could really do without the BS that surrounds the MP side, unfortunately that is never going to happen (unless something
else comes along..)

You'll be surprised at how many people actually buy Doom 2 (I went in to EB the other day, in less than 1 hour I noticed that 3 people bought
a copy each of doom2, I am not shitting you, it still sells for around $20 here)

its only a matter of time before zdaemon implodes on itself, just you wait and see.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: aca on March 16, 2006, 03:28:46 pm
Whenever I go to the computer section at Wal-Mart, I always see people buying those little jewel cases of Doom 2 that go for like $10USD.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: nitus on March 16, 2006, 11:32:34 pm
Quote
Ralphis is right though, ZD and possibly ST (nothing against Carn, since I like him) are real thorns in the side of the doom community
we could really do without the BS that surrounds the MP side, unfortunately that is never going to happen (unless something
else comes along..)

Quote
While the rest of the community shares its material with eachother and promotes growth, the multiplayer community of doom backpeddled into a feudal era of closed-source bullshit. You are not here to help the community or promote any moving forward. You are here to get your power trips.

I'm not going to argue that the multi-player community is the primary source of new players, because that should be blatantly obvious to everyone. It doesn't take a high degree of insight to notice how many people move from there to mapping, coding projects, web admin, or other aspects of Dooming online.
 
I might point out that, virtually without exception, every person who has posted in this thread came into the Doom Community as a player from the MP community - either CsDoom, ZDaemon, or Skulltag. Including you both! That should give your argument a little pause for though, though evidently it doesn't.
 
 
What I will argue, though, is why the tendancy towards closed-source?
 
First of all, let me point out that Skulltag was closed long before ZDaemon, and none of you were bitching about that then. ZDaemon became closed-source a mere year ago, in the midst of widespread and game-breaking cheating - it was not the route they wanted to go, but was [and is] the only way to even begin to crack down on cheaters.
 
Look around. You'll note that virtually every online game with more than 10 players is closed-source to a degree, regardless of its origin. Why do you suppose that is? Ego? Hardly.
 
If you guys had any capability, instead of just a lot of hot air, you'd take the ZDaemon 1.06 code [or some kind of code] and create your own port. Then you might discover what a nightmare it is to actually manage an online community, to be spending your every waking hour either dealing with problems or trying to figure out ways to prevent new ones from cropping up - instead of simply loafing on the forums or in irc,posing as an admin while other people do all the work.
 
Sadly, while you've proved to have some talent at the latter, I'm not holding my breath for you to pull a decent port out of your ass. And if, somehow, you managed it, the only people eating their words would be you - once you realized that a degree of control was not an ego-trip but a necessary means of preventing the game from going to shit.
 

 
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ant P on March 16, 2006, 11:51:07 pm
Look around. You'll note that virtually every online game with more than 10 players is closed-source to a degree, regardless of its origin. Why do you suppose that is? Ego? Hardly.

I count 35 people on the public Nexuiz servers right now. That's 35 more people than I can currently see playing ZDaemon.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: deathz0r on March 17, 2006, 12:12:18 am
I might point out that, virtually without exception, every person who has posted in this thread came into the Doom Community as a player from the MP community - either CsDoom, ZDaemon, or Skulltag. Including you both! That should give your argument a little pause for though, though evidently it doesn't.
I came into the Doom community via Doomworld a few months before ZDaemon existed and a few months before Skulltag had mulitplayer support when a friend of my brother gave me JDoom, so that statement is totally wrong.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: aca on March 17, 2006, 12:46:05 am
Look around. You'll note that virtually every online game with more than 10 players is closed-source to a degree, regardless of its origin. Why do you suppose that is? Ego? Hardly.

Yes, but those games aren't based on a game that was released under the GPL. Besides haven't you ever heard of Quake 1, 2 and 3? They're also open-source.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ty on March 17, 2006, 12:54:22 am
imho, one can try to manage an irc chan or a forum. Trying to manage a whole community will indeed lead to the problems tightly managed communities have (some of the problems the doom multiplayer community have have its roots there i think).
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: deathz0r on March 17, 2006, 01:12:28 am
Quote from: nitus
But then I figured, fuck 'em. If they can dish it out, they better be able to take it.
I do read the ZDaemon forums occasionally, by the way. I'm not IP banned, but I'm unable to post.

Anyway, I'm certainly able to take it. Come on, I review /newstuff for Doomworld, I get a shitload more flak in most /newstuff reviews that I've received in this thread so far. O

Quote from: Samiam
The only ammunition they seem able to come up with at the moment is that of larger shovels in which to dig themselves deeper holes imo, it's rather amusing to see them getting tangled up in their own half truths and tales. Great post over there btw Nitus, the soccer analogy is bang on, as was the rest of the post.
God, you reek of "Yesman" behaviour. Then again, that's not surprising to me since you always have been for as long as I remember.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Manc on March 17, 2006, 01:23:55 am

I might point out that, virtually without exception, every person who has posted in this thread came into the Doom Community as a player from the MP community - either CsDoom, ZDaemon, or Skulltag. Including you both! That should give your argument a little pause for though, though evidently it doesn't.
Quite a few yes, but not all.  I can certainly vouch for myself.  I've been around for much longer, working SINGLE PLAYER projects.  I started in the single player world and moved to multiplayer much later than most everyone here.  I would not say "virtually everyone without exception" unless you can back that up.

 
 
What I will argue, though, is why the tendancy towards closed-source?
 
First of all, let me point out that Skulltag was closed long before ZDaemon, and none of you were bitching about that then. ZDaemon became closed-source a mere year ago, in the midst of widespread and game-breaking cheating - it was not the route they wanted to go, but was [and is] the only way to even begin to crack down on cheaters.
First of all, so often did I see zdaemon users whining about the fact that skulltag was closed source which made it not as good as zdaemon.  In irc channels, emails, etc.  So spare me this bullshit, people did complain.  Secondly, closing the source does not solve the cheating problem.  You're no better off than if the source is open.  It's about how the game is designed and how the client interacts with the server.  You CAN have an open source multiplayer gaming software.
 
 

If you guys had any capability, instead of just a lot of hot air, you'd take the ZDaemon 1.06 code [or some kind of code] and create your own port. Then you might discover what a nightmare it is to actually manage an online community, to be spending your every waking hour either dealing with problems or trying to figure out ways to prevent new ones from cropping up - instead of simply loafing on the forums or in irc,posing as an admin while other people do all the work.
 
Sadly, while you've proved to have some talent at the latter, I'm not holding my breath for you to pull a decent port out of your ass. And if, somehow, you managed it, the only people eating their words would be you - once you realized that a degree of control was not an ego-trip but a necessary means of preventing the game from going to shit.

I have no reason to quote this other than to say words will be eaten, we will see who does the eating.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Russell on March 17, 2006, 08:43:57 am
I'd like to point out, that having an open source multiplayer game, doesn't make it automatically exploitable.
sure, it may be quicker and possibly easier for kiddies to code cheats for, but then again, if the game is coded in
a smart way to prevent cheats, even if the source is available, it can make such cheats useless, to the point
where it is pointless to cheat.

Also, having a game under open source and/or under a decent license (preferably), it will also help the situation
with the game somewhat, depending on the community and how dedicated the users are to the game, also how
the staff run the servers and whatnot.

It's very obvious what the current situation with zdaemon is, put what I wrote in the past 2 paragraphs above
and what you have is pretty much self-explanatory.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: AlexMax on March 17, 2006, 09:29:16 am
Quote
I'm not going to argue that the multi-player community is the primary source of new players, because that should be blatantly obvious to everyone. It doesn't take a high degree of insight to notice how many people move from there to mapping, coding projects, web admin, or other aspects of Dooming online.
 
I might point out that, virtually without exception, every person who has posted in this thread came into the Doom Community as a player from the MP community - either CsDoom, ZDaemon, or Skulltag. Including you both! That should give your argument a little pause for though, though evidently it doesn't.

I actually found Doomworld first.

Quote
What I will argue, though, is why the tendancy towards closed-source?
 
First of all, let me point out that Skulltag was closed long before ZDaemon, and none of you were bitching about that then. ZDaemon became closed-source a mere year ago, in the midst of widespread and game-breaking cheating - it was not the route they wanted to go, but was [and is] the only way to even begin to crack down on cheaters.

Actually, one of the major reasons I used to support ZDaemon was because it was open source, and Skulltag's was closed source
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: AlexMax on March 17, 2006, 10:04:21 am
Quote
What I will argue, though, is why the tendancy towards closed-source?
 
First of all, let me point out that Skulltag was closed long before ZDaemon, and none of you were bitching about that then. ZDaemon became closed-source a mere year ago, in the midst of widespread and game-breaking cheating - it was not the route they wanted to go, but was [and is] the only way to even begin to crack down on cheaters.

Incorrect.  BZFlag would like to have a word with you, as the most popular game on sourceforge.  It has no closed source code, and yet it has tons of players.  Cite your sources please.  One I can think of off the top of my head is Cube, but that's necissary because aard didn't create the game with security in mind, and left it to the community to make the tournament worthy version.  The other is Quake, which has now relied on closed source secuirty modules to ensure security.  Interestingly enough I beleive ZDaemon uses the same codebase...or at least one like it that was rewritten from scratch.
 
Quote
If you guys had any capability, instead of just a lot of hot air, you'd take the ZDaemon 1.06 code [or some kind of code] and create your own port. Then you might discover what a nightmare it is to actually manage an online community, to be spending your every waking hour either dealing with problems or trying to figure out ways to prevent new ones from cropping up - instead of simply loafing on the forums or in irc,posing as an admin while other people do all the work.

ZDaemon is only a nightmare to maintain because your administration made it that way by taking in so much of the community.  When you have a nanny state, you get to deal with all the stupid shit that comes with it.

And as an aside, several of us had a hand in managing ZDaemon and Skulltag for a while.
 
Quote
Sadly, while you've proved to have some talent at the latter, I'm not holding my breath for you to pull a decent port out of your ass. And if, somehow, you managed it, the only people eating their words would be you - once you realized that a degree of control was not an ego-trip but a necessary means of preventing the game from going to shit.

You arrogant piece of shit.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: nitus on March 20, 2006, 01:37:21 am
Yeah, z0r, I know you read the ZDaemon forums from time to time; you've mentioned that a few times.
 

Now that you've all spent a page or two answering my attack, did you learn anything? Perhaps that a plausible, reasonably well-written troll is still a troll? Or does the irony, perhaps, fall on dull ears?
 
I actually like most of you, even Mancubus who I only know by occasional observation. What I don't like is that you feel a need to continually attack a group of people who work tirelessly to maintain a functional multiplayer community - motivated not by ego but by a love of their game and a desire to improve player's experience of it.
 
We all know that a few of you have a reason to carry some lingering grudge towards the ZDaemon staff, and it could even be that a number of the people who read this forum agree with you.
 
I'm not one of them, though. Honestly, posting on threads such as this is about as close to getting involved as I get beyond by daily play session - but I do lurk around, and I pay attention. None of you who were former ZDaemon staff simply left overnight - this was stuff that was ongoing for months and months.
 
And, regardless of who was right or who was wrong in a purely philosophic sense, in a hardcore real-life sense what happened was normal and predictable, and not functionally different from what would happen if it were a job, or volunteer canvassing, or anything else. "If you don't like it, leave" might not be a pleasant thing to hear, but it's life - deal with it.
 
I like ZDaemon - that's about as simple as my perspective gets. I came here purely because threads like this lead clueless third-parties to a whacked idea of what zdaemon is about, and unfortunately, usually when somebody from the zdaemon camp gets involved they come off looking like a ranting lunatic. In the hype of the situation, I thought I might be able to shift the focus, and I think I have. So don't take it as a personal attack, because it's not.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: DarkRevenge on March 20, 2006, 08:42:55 pm
motivated not by ego but by a love of their game and a desire to improve player's experience of it.
Hmm. How much love could you possibly have for it if you are deleting it off of other people's computers?
And, regardless of who was right or who was wrong in a purely philosophic sense, in a hardcore real-life sense what happened was normal and predictable, and not functionally different from what would happen if it were a job, or volunteer canvassing, or anything else. "If you don't like it, leave" might not be a pleasant thing to hear, but it's life - deal with it.
What I assume your saying here, is that if you do this stuff then you will get whats coming to you? Well, we completely agree with the whole, "No Cheating" idea, but we just don't think its nessesary to do what was done.
Quote
I like ZDaemon - that's about as simple as my perspective gets. I came here purely because threads like this lead clueless third-parties to a whacked idea of what zdaemon is about, and unfortunately, usually when somebody from the zdaemon camp gets involved they come off looking like a ranting lunatic. In the hype of the situation, I thought I might be able to shift the focus, and I think I have. So don't take it as a personal attack, because it's not.
Clueless third parties creating whacked ideas? Look, we all still know that ZDaemon is about playing Doom, but when somebody goes and does something like this, and the people at ZDaemon do little to nothing about it, it is perfectly logical to have different opinions about the ZDaemon staff.

The only reason they can't realize that this is a bad thing is because they don't want to. In the back of their minds they know it is true, but they can't come to believe it.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ant P on March 20, 2006, 08:52:28 pm
Now that you've all spent a page or two answering my attack, did you learn anything? Perhaps that a plausible, reasonably well-written troll is still a troll? Or does the irony, perhaps, fall on dull ears?

Now that you've admitted outright your post was intended as an attack and a troll, I'll just fob you off with another one-liner.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ralphis on March 21, 2006, 01:46:34 am
What I don't like is that you feel a need to continually attack a group of people who work tirelessly to maintain a functional multiplayer community - motivated not by ego but by a love of their game and a desire to improve player's experience of it.

This is where we tend to disagree. Their egos need to be fed through their player base. Of course, they obtain this by allowing hundreds upon hundreds of players to illegally obtain the Doom IWADS through their software.

We are fighting for what the Doom community should be: An open source community. While everyone else has moved forward the multiplayer community is now in a dark age of secrecy and bullshit. This is not what Doom was open sourced for and we will stand by our positions of what the community SHOULD be and do whatever is in our power to make it a reality.

Final word.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: jassteX on March 22, 2006, 03:07:20 pm
I tried to read all the posts, I only got so far. Let me say this once. JUST PLAY DOOM. The two sides will never stop arguing. Maybe have a Lan somewhere so we can settle the score. Play doom and enjoy!


chronic!
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ant P on March 22, 2006, 04:44:33 pm
It's kind of hard to play when the game is crippled running on my OS, to the point where I get higher framerates on Doom 3 on a 2.6GHz P4 with a FX5200 - that is when I could still run ZDaemon at all.

And I have tried other sourceports:

jDoom and PRBoom both run perfectly. They're both GPL2ed and open source, FYI.
Unfortunately freedoom2.wad doesn't work in jDoom and PRBoom has awkward controls, and neither have strong online stuff.

ST is totally broken. All I get from it is a DirectX error message.

ZDoom almost compiles. Almost.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: izm on March 23, 2006, 07:23:06 pm
I find Zdaemon really really funny, AF-Domains is the biggest spaz I've ever come across, and he looks like my period. All they do in their channel is brown nosing each other. Most of them are 13 year old kids or 40 year old single mothers.

Doom is so much better than that.

 
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: izm on March 23, 2006, 07:24:40 pm
I find Zdaemon really really funny, AF-Domains is the biggest spaz I've ever come across, and he looks like my period. All they do in their channel is brown nosing each other. Most of them are 13 year old kids or 40 year old single mothers.

Doom is so much better than that.

 

And also, I think Doom2Pro is an online Hitler.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Lyfe on March 23, 2006, 08:28:22 pm
Hey Lyfe, what is up?

I haven't seen you in #nightmare2 lately, I thought you got a life or something ;)
I haven't spent time in #nightmare2 for ages.  To be honest, I'm not sure I remember what network it's on.  As for a life?  Well, it's in progress.  Grad school can make you wish you had more time to goof off (or more time for work, cause you're goofing off to much).
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Russell on March 23, 2006, 08:35:22 pm
QuakeNet #nightmare2 if you're still up for it.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: DarkRevenge on March 24, 2006, 02:21:59 am
I find Zdaemon really really funny, AF-Domains is the biggest spaz I've ever come across, and he looks like my period. All they do in their channel is brown nosing each other. Most of them are 13 year old kids or 40 year old single mothers.

Doom is so much better than that.

 
lol so true. I remember playing ZDaemon for the first time when I was like... 10... lol. As I aged I realized how much better skulltag was.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Manc on March 24, 2006, 05:42:57 pm
It's kind of hard to play when the game is crippled running on my OS, to the point where I get higher framerates on Doom 3 on a 2.6GHz P4 with a FX5200 - that is when I could still run ZDaemon at all.

And I have tried other sourceports:

jDoom and PRBoom both run perfectly. They're both GPL2ed and open source, FYI.
Unfortunately freedoom2.wad doesn't work in jDoom and PRBoom has awkward controls, and neither have strong online stuff.

ST is totally broken. All I get from it is a DirectX error message.

ZDoom almost compiles. Almost.
What operating system do you use?
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ant P on March 24, 2006, 06:14:44 pm
Linux x86.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: AlexMax on March 24, 2006, 07:19:36 pm
This is where we tend to disagree. Their egos need to be fed through their player base. Of course, they obtain this by allowing hundreds upon hundreds of players to illegally obtain the Doom IWADS through their software.

We are fighting for what the Doom community should be: An open source community. While everyone else has moved forward the multiplayer community is now in a dark age of secrecy and bullshit. This is not what Doom was open sourced for and we will stand by our positions of what the community SHOULD be and do whatever is in our power to make it a reality.

Final word.

Ralphis is right.  I remember, vaguely, the days before Raider took over, and they were great fun.  Granted, most of you didn't know who I was, but I've been playing ZDaemon since .99, though i took some time off from around 1.02 to 1.05.  The old community had a spark and competativeness around it that felt like it was going somewhere.  Right now, ZDaemon is stagnant.  It might be getting new players, and it may pride itself in how big of a community it is, but the spark is gone.  It is a dead community, for all intents and purposes, reguardless of how many players they boast.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Chaindude on March 24, 2006, 11:14:47 pm
The last time I played Doom was Doom2 v.1.666 in the 90s. Fast-forward to 2001ish and I find some ports--still all single player. Then I took a break. I find ZDaemon and think "Wtf...Doom2.exe runs smoother than this" and scrap it from my HD. Thank goodness I found ST on Nov. of 05. Sure, it may not have the player base that ZD has, and the new features may intimidate some hardcore Oldschool guys, but I find it a better place.

Politics in ST? Heh, politics are EVERYWHERE--in some places it's more rampant than others.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: DarkRevenge on March 25, 2006, 01:21:20 am
I find ZDaemon and think "Wtf...Doom2.exe runs smoother than this" and scrap it from my HD.
Heh ZDaemon gets like 20 Frames per second average. Thats not exact, I will have to check.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: izm on March 25, 2006, 11:25:08 am
About the illegal downloading of IWADs, they keep informing newbies 'you can't talk about downloading Doom2.wad, go buy it!' then all you have to do is use GetWad, nothing can be done about that?
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ant P on March 25, 2006, 11:39:10 am
The fix is blatantly obvious and takes a single line change to the source code, which is all the more incriminating when you consider how long they've held off doing so.

Getwad is basically a piracy tool by intention.
Title: Meh.
Post by: Lippy on March 25, 2006, 08:20:24 pm
Hey deathz0r, you are so desperate to get back at kilgore aren't you.
If you have been outcast out of the zdaemon community, why should you care what is happening.

What doom2pro did was excellent, it wasn't as if he spammed the link in every forum, he put it in one forum, one forum which is full of cheating bastards.

As for codeimp, your making me laugh, you forced an update on St, attacked zdaemon, and your angered by a ponsy little virus, Heh.

Feel free to send me hate mail.

Killgore has nothing to do with this, so i advize you edit your post. Or do you want it to look like killgore did it?
Title: Re: Meh.
Post by: DarkRevenge on March 26, 2006, 01:31:39 am
Hey deathz0r, you are so desperate to get back at kilgore aren't you.
If you have been outcast out of the zdaemon community, why should you care what is happening.
If I were deathz0r, I would be GLAD to be outcasted from the community. It would keep me from ever going back to it again for one reason or another.
What doom2pro did was excellent, it wasn't as if he spammed the link in every forum, he put it in one forum, one forum which is full of cheating bastards.
No, it wasn't excellent. It was illegal, as it most of the other stuff ZDaemon does, such as the fact of download Doom2.wad through getwad.
Feel free to send me hate mail.
I wouldn't bother, a little faggot like you doesn't deserve e-mail.
Title: Re: Meh.
Post by: Russell on March 26, 2006, 01:33:20 am
Quote
Hey deathz0r, you are so desperate to get back at kilgore aren't you.

before you start making assumptions (oh sorry, you already have), read the entire thread

Quote
What doom2pro did was excellent, it wasn't as if he spammed the link in every forum, he put it in one forum, one forum which is full of cheating bastards.

what he did do was not excellent, it was more or less illegal, even if they were cheating, it still doesn't matter.

Quote
your,advize

your english and do not know how to spell, I'd expect more from a brit.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ant P on March 26, 2006, 02:18:42 am
I have no response other than this link (http://forums.zdaemon.org/viewtopic.php?p=116865#116865).
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: exp(x) on March 26, 2006, 09:19:36 am
ST is totally broken. All I get from it is a DirectX error message.
Download dinput.dll and put it in your skulltag directory. Launch winecfg and add a library override for dinput. It should work now assuming you have a recent version of wine. Everything seems to work except joining servers (which kind of defeats the purpose of using skulltag unless you like the bots).
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: izm on March 26, 2006, 12:23:15 pm
Actually, seeing as I can't edit my own post, let me say that not all 13 year olds in Zdaemon are that bad. Humanbones is probably one of the most mature people there, and he is only in his early teens.

My boss always told me that if you asslick your way to the top, you will be shit at your job. Sums ZDaemon up. ;)
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ant P on March 26, 2006, 02:07:21 pm
Download dinput.dll and put it in your skulltag directory. Launch winecfg and add a library override for dinput. It should work now assuming you have a recent version of wine. Everything seems to work except joining servers (which kind of defeats the purpose of using skulltag unless you like the bots).
omfg, zdoomgl works
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: nitus on March 27, 2006, 12:49:49 am
Ant P: I'm glad something works for you - must suck having so few options, even if it's your own fault for using linux. ;p

Ralphis, AlexMax - You must realize that a lot of your beef is purely perceptual. Back in the early days of ZDaemon, it was a much smaller community, but it was also new and fresh. As for your perception of the way things are there now, well - again, that's entirely subjective.
 
I'm not an admin, or a wannabe, or even a part of any clique there - I leaped into this thread with a rant or two merely on impulse. I log in, chat a bit, play a bit, and that's about all. And if you approach the community on that basis, more or less ignoring the admins and the backroom intrigue, what you see is a very different facet of the place. It's a shame that none of you ever tried that, simply playing the game, when you had the chance.
 
RE iwads on getwad - the ZDaemon admins don't encourage placing the iwads there. Over the last few years, I've tried it off and on, and it's a fact that during the last few years, the iwads have not been available on getwad more often then they have been there. Probably at least 70% of the last two years, they haven't been on there.
 
True, they're on there right at this minute. But they're not actively maintained on there by ZDaemon. I suppose you could argue that a filtering capability could easily be added to getwad to prevent them from appearing on there, but I prefer to focus on the fact that not a one of you expressed any problem with it when you were in the community. This forces me to wonder whether you're really interested in crusading for a decade+ old datafile, or if it's just another point you can target against the ZDaemon team.
 
Title: Re: Meh.
Post by: deathz0r on March 27, 2006, 01:04:17 am
Whiny emo babble
You're just pissed off because I didn't like your map.
If I were deathz0r, I would be GLAD to be outcasted from the community. It would keep me from ever going back to it again for one reason or another.
You read my mind so damn brilliantly.
Back in the early days of ZDaemon, it was a much smaller community, but it was also new and fresh.
One thing I liked about the early days of ZDaemon is that there was no administration at all. People could go about doing whatever they wanted without fear of intervention. That is the community some of us grown up in, and maybe some of us still prefer it that way.
Quote
I'm not an admin, or a wannabe, or even a part of any clique there - I leaped into this thread with a rant or two merely on impulse. I log in, chat a bit, play a bit, and that's about all. And if you approach the community on that basis, more or less ignoring the admins and the backroom intrigue, what you see is a very different facet of the place. It's a shame that none of you ever tried that, simply playing the game, when you had the chance.
I think I've said this already in this thread, but I'll say it again:

Once you get involved with the ZDaemon community, the only way out is to get banned.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ralphis on March 27, 2006, 05:21:26 am
Actually, seeing as I can't edit my own post, let me say that not all 13 year olds in Zdaemon are that bad. Humanbones is probably one of the most mature people there, and he is only in his early teens.

My boss always told me that if you asslick your way to the top, you will be shit at your job. Sums ZDaemon up. ;)

Why don't you just register already.

Also, is it any surprise that Bones is in UD?

Ralphis, AlexMax - You must realize that a lot of your beef is purely perceptual. Back in the early days of ZDaemon, it was a much smaller community, but it was also new and fresh. As for your perception of the way things are there now, well - again, that's entirely subjective.
 
I'm not an admin, or a wannabe, or even a part of any clique there - I leaped into this thread with a rant or two merely on impulse. I log in, chat a bit, play a bit, and that's about all. And if you approach the community on that basis, more or less ignoring the admins and the backroom intrigue, what you see is a very different facet of the place. It's a shame that none of you ever tried that, simply playing the game, when you had the chance.
 
RE iwads on getwad - the ZDaemon admins don't encourage placing the iwads there. Over the last few years, I've tried it off and on, and it's a fact that during the last few years, the iwads have not been available on getwad more often then they have been there. Probably at least 70% of the last two years, they haven't been on there.
 
True, they're on there right at this minute. But they're not actively maintained on there by ZDaemon. I suppose you could argue that a filtering capability could easily be added to getwad to prevent them from appearing on there, but I prefer to focus on the fact that not a one of you expressed any problem with it when you were in the community. This forces me to wonder whether you're really interested in crusading for a decade+ old datafile, or if it's just another point you can target against the ZDaemon team.
 


AHEM.

First off, if everyone only played the game these things that you love wouldn't exist. Boom, Zdoom, CSdoom, ZDaemon. Your progression would not have happened if people just played without getting involved. Someone has to do it and some want to do it to preserve the game they love.

As deathz0r stated, we went years without intervention from any sort of "administration". It may have a belonging in the ZDaemon community, but it won't have any belonging to the rest of us and that is why we all left (amongst other bull). Allow me to remind you that I did not leave after I was banned. I am NOT banned and I choose not to play much like many of my brethren.

And don't go throwing around assumptions that I didn't have a problem with getwad downloading IWads when I was considered a moderator there. I did. It went ignored and it probably couldn't even be remembered by anybody because of it. I can assure you it was mentioned MULTIPLE times. Their thirst for new players is not a reason why it should even go unignored now. It was illegal, is illegal, and always WILL be illegal.

Anything else?
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: Ant P on March 27, 2006, 04:16:46 pm
Ant P: I'm glad something works for you - must suck having so few options, even if it's your own fault for using linux. ;p

UT2004 works fine - out of the box. As do Doom 3/Quake 4. Not counting Nexuiz, Quake 1-3 and more FPSes than I'll ever have time to play.

Must suck having so little free resources for games, after installing all the antivirus bloat, and the antispyware crap, and the service packs, and the dozen or so patches on every Black Tuesday. And even with all that bringing the system to its knees, I bet you'll have fun knowing there's yet another (http://isc.sans.org/diary.php?storyid=1223) goatse hole in your PC that won't get fixed till a fortnight from now...
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: exp(x) on March 27, 2006, 09:06:04 pm
Must suck having so little free resources for games, after installing all the antivirus bloat, and the antispyware crap, and the service packs, and the dozen or so patches on every Black Tuesday. And even with all that bringing the system to its knees, I bet you'll have fun knowing there's yet another (http://isc.sans.org/diary.php?storyid=1223) goatse hole in your PC that won't get fixed till a fortnight from now...

Word.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: nitus on March 27, 2006, 11:57:56 pm
Quote
Must suck having so little free resources for games, after installing all the antivirus bloat, and the antispyware crap, and the service packs, and the dozen or so patches on every Black Tuesday. And even with all that bringing the system to its knees, I bet you'll have fun knowing there's yet another goatse hole in your PC that won't get fixed till a fortnight from now...

An even better solution, which doesn't consume resources, is to not be an idiot and simply avoid loading viruses and trojans. ;p
 
Quote
Anything else?

As a matter of fact, yes.
 
I demand to know why Quantum Leap is not in syndication.
Title: Re: Word on the grapevine
Post by: John on April 04, 2006, 05:45:47 am
Because Sam Beckett is out farting around in some beat up old junker of a space ship, that's why.